Ripped off!!

11/1/2013

So, my mother always told me that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery ... but, when does imitation become ripping off?

The first image is a pattern I made about seven years ago and the second is something I found yesterday at the Victorian Trading Co. website for $399.95!!

This design, has a longer story than most of my patterns.

When I was asked to attend Costume College in 2005 with Martha McCain, I found out that the theme of the annual tea was going to be Gilbert and Sullivan. Well at that time, I was at the height of my Gilbert and Sullivan singing and boldly volunteered to be the entertainment. But ... I needed something to wear. Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Sullivan wrote their operettas between the years 1871 and 1896 so, after looking and looking through my books I decided to make the outfit on the front of this Dover Book, a walking suit from 1895. I really always wanted something from this period with the giant Leg'o'Mutton sleeve.

I then set to pattern research, drafting, draping and sewing.

And those were the days I had an assistant, Debbie (I miss her!), who cut this out for me.

Which resulted in this ... and thanks Val for the photo!

Simplicity, then, asked for it to be made into a pattern. So, back to the work table to fix any problems and there certainly were some. And make it into a sample size 10.

I then took many photos of the sewing process because I wanted Simplicity to know exactly how I made the collar AND got the crinoline support ruffles inside those giant sleeves.

And another reason I miss Debbie ... she fit perfectly into Simplicity's sample size.

So ... I'm rewriting this a little since posting a couple hours ago. Trying not to be too petty.
We all borrow from each other. And I should be flattered.

OK ... done venting.

Thanks for listening.

15 Comments

Evette Nixon link

11/1/2013 12:56:03 am

Would that be a direct violation of copyright though? It says right on the envelopes what the restrictions on distribution and production are for Simplicity Patterns. Is Simplicity aware of it?

Andrea

11/1/2013 01:19:00 am

Yes, Simplicity knows. This is not the first time this has happened. I can think of 4 such obvious copies being sold on line at major websites, not just people doing custom work for others.
It just usually isn't worth the time and effort to do anything AND it is pain staking to prove AND it can just start up a blame game between companies. Simplicity has been known to borrow "looks". Although not exact pattern piece copying.
BUT! ...

corsetra link

11/1/2013 03:34:29 am

Okay, you admit that you turned to Stella Blum's book to creat your pattern, as a starting base at least.
IF you used a pattern from that book, which is protected under copyright, then wouldn't you be copying (ripping off) as well?

When it comes to historical clothing, many of us are looking at the same things, patterns images, so many of us come to the same conclusions independently.

For example, myself and another person we looking at the same corset, my pattern for it was different than the one they came up with. we had the same image, though different qualities for that image, and I found additional images. Our patterns are different, neither of us has seen the actual garment up close, so neither of us can say ours is right, it is just our best guess and extrapolation based on other historical references. (YES this is a REAL example)

11/1/2013 05:10:30 am

It does all get very squishy. There are no patterns in Stella Blum's book. It is just a bunch

11/1/2013 05:23:46 am

Phone froze ... Ms. Blum's book is just copy's of vintage fashion plates. I used patterns from several books and a lot of original pattern work. But it would, of course, be very hard to prove.

Lisa Logan

11/1/2013 04:11:44 am

Not to be argumentative, just curious over the process and copyright laws ... how can you be sure that they didn't use the Dover Book sketch as their design illustration just like you did?

I always thought it would be difficult to prove a copyright violation of pattern use, simply because, if you change a seam or angle by a smidgeon ... it's no longer really that pattern, is it?

Your dress and pattern DO look very beautiful!!

11/1/2013 06:15:27 am

You know, the problem is, is there just isn't enough money involved in most cases like this to make it worth the trouble. We all just have to keep moving forward.
And, of course, it's possible that the people who are making the ready to wear costume could have started from scratch from the Dover Book, too.

Kathleen Johnson

11/1/2013 06:25:52 am

As someone who makes her living in a copy-protected profession, I find it unfortunate but true that you can't copyright an idea. It could be considered copyright infringement if they stole your photos of the dress and claimed them as their own, but even that is a little dicey.

Side note: My 6-y-o son (now 29) once handcuffed my neighbor to her porch railing, claiming that he was arresting her for copyright infringement. Guess he'd heard me rant. A lot.

11/1/2013 07:57:11 am

Haha ... good story! well the side note story.

Jehanni

11/1/2013 08:21:30 am

What strikes me most about the VTC costume is how poorly it appears to fit their model, lol!

Lex

11/3/2013 07:59:00 pm

Where historical fashion is concerned it's a really grey area because a lot of modern patterns and costumes are based off fashion plates and it is not impossible to have 2 or 3 identical patterns adapted from fashion plates. After all, if you can make a pattern surely someone else can too? It is possible they have used your pattern to make the gown and are now selling the gown, but how do you prove it was made using your pattern and as the pattern is X number of years old, is there still an active copyright on it. I know Simplicity patterns are not to be used for commercial sale, but does this clause have a time limit based on the copy right of the pattern? They could argue (as many on e-bay and etsy do) that you are paying for the fabric and their time, NOT the pattern etc.

It looks like your pattern but your pattern looks like a fashion plate which probably had a pattern of its own somewhere at some point. It is always going to be a tough one when you put your creations out into the 'public domain' for sale and so-on.

I've had repeated requests and enquiries about doing commissions based on that Game-of-Thrones inspired gown I messaged you about but given the time it takes me to make them and the cost of the fabric and findings, putting aside the copyright issue for the moment, I would have to charge nearly £400 just to break even. Then you have to question whether doing a commission for a friend or colleague counts as 'commercial' - I suppose it does, even if arguably I don't actually make a profit from it. Ultimately I've explained the costs to people and when they hear how much my time and the resources alone would cost they usually change their minds pretty quickly - people tend to expect you to make them impressive looking gowns and stuff for less than £100 and are shocked when the fabric alone is nearly £200....

I tend to decline commissions due to the above but encourage people to try making the gown for themselves and I've offered to host 'sewing parties' or 'craft groups' where we can get together and sew and share tips and expertise but people tend not to be interested :-(

11/3/2013 09:50:03 pm

Just to be clear ... it's not the style that I mind being copied, because yes, I copied the style from the old fashion plate. It's the hours I spent developing a pattern that fits the modern body. If this company did indeed directly use that Simplicity pattern with all the different sizes that it's published in, that's what I think is not fair.

11/3/2013 10:07:42 pm

Well that is exactly it isn't it - it certainly LOOKS suspiciously like your pattern, but it is not possible to know 100% and again, it depends on the length of time the copyright is active and so on (I don't know anything about these things but I'm told that copyrights have to be renewed? Perhaps I'm wrong). Then you also have the old etsy chestnut of 'You're paying for materials and my time'.

It is certainly galling not to be credited. If you wanted to pursue it as a breach of copyright they would have to provide documentation detailing how their pattern is significantly different to yours in terms of size and construction, and moving a few darts about probably wouldn't count, but if Simplicity own the copyright to the pattern, it is their battle to fight. But yes, I'd be really cheesed off if someone sold my work off as theirs and didn't credit me as a source.

Have you emailed them?

Linda yeazel

11/5/2013 06:10:08 am

Beautiful work! You're family sure got Grandmas talents!

Val LaBore link

11/16/2013 12:22:18 am

Andrea, we still talk about you and Martha from the '05 Costume College. And about your singing at the tea. It was one of the more memorable ones.
And I bought the pattern as soon as it was on the market. I'm starting to look more at fashion plates now for ideas instead of doing cookie cutter dresses. They had some really whacko ones too.
Val

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Ripped off!!

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