Sizing is NEVER clear ... grrrrr

6/26/2015

THIS! illustrates some of the problems with sizing women's clothing. We are all so different!

I am re-working my talk on measuring and sizing that I will be giving at the American Sewing Guild's National Convention in July. And I in the process have run across more interesting and confusing stuff.

First, we have the differences in sizes from country to country ... we all know about that, no surprise.

But, because so many of us order clothing on line, there are many, many tutorials and photos showing the "correct" way to measure. There are a lot of people doing some pretty bad measuring out there. And there are some genuine differences of opinions on the right way to do certain measurements.

I'm sorting that all out for my talk.

There is no one perfect, correct size or way to measure.

SO ... if you sew for yourself or others, be prepared to alter and adjust. Any pattern you buy is most likely going to need changes to fit correctly.

And, if you buy a piece of clothing, be prepared to try on multiple sizes AND brands until you find the one that fits.

The chart above, I find mind boggling.

Now, here is something I found on Nancy Zeiman's website.

She calls it her "Right Size" way to choose a size. It is similar to choosing a pattern based on the upper bust measurement, but using just the front.
I tried this and found out I should use a size 10, which I know is too small in the shoulders for me. I almost always use a 12 for bodices and tops. So, close but, no cigar.

Here is the advice from Simplicity's website for when to use your high or upper bust measurement to choose a pattern size.

When to use high bust measurement:

Patterns are drafted for the B-cup figure. If your bra cup size is larger than a B-cup it will affect the way the pattern fits.

If your cup size is larger than a B-cup, you will get a better fit by choosing your pattern size according to your High Bust measurement. When using size chart to find pattern size, use High Bust measurement as your bust measurement.

To determine your bra cup size, subtract your High Bust measurement from your Bust measurement and follow these guidelines:

Difference Between High Bust and BustCup Size
Less than 2 ” - A or B cup
2 ” to 3” - C cup
3” to 4” - D cup
4” or more - Larger than D cup

This method works better for me.

What have you tried? What methods work best for you?

Seriously I would love to know. It would help me with my talk.

14 Comments

Liz link

6/26/2015 03:04:00 am

I am an inverted triangle with a D+ cup. I also have a low-set bust, so the upper bust measurement method doesn't work for me. No pattern ever fits me right out of the package and I have not worn a factory-made button-front shirt or jacket in years because the bust is too high set and the buttons pull in the bust or it flabs under the arms. (Not to mention I wear anything from a size 4 to a 14 depending on the manufacturer! How are you supposed to be able to order things if you can't even trust their size chart from one style dress to the next?!) The best method for me, so far, has been to choose a pattern size based on the final waist measurement. I wish companies printed all of the final measurements on the back envelope or put a note about ease amounts since sometimes I am between size envelopes. I usually make a pattern size 10 or 12 and do a Full Bust Adjustment, shorten the waist, lower the bust line, increase shoulder width, raise the armscye, and use a smaller pattern size for the back pieces. Learning pattern adjustment is a necessary skill. Unless you are blessed to be a standard size, learning to slice and dice patterns will help a lot! Numbers slowly become meaningless after a while...

Andrea

6/26/2015 05:29:43 am

Thank you, Liz.
You certainly sound like understand your body and know how to adjust patterns. My bust is low, too. The upper bust method should work for you, although you don't need it now. If you add two inches to your upper bust measurement, that should give you the bust measurement for the size pattern you should use. Then, of course, you need to make adjustments. And the finished garment measurements really are the most useful.

Ayan

6/26/2015 09:57:40 pm

I agree! Finished bust, waist, and hip measurements on the envelope would be a godsend! If there's no room there, perhaps they could be printed on the instructions sheet so that you can quickly slip it out of the envelope and check before buying a pattern. I usually can find a "finished bust" measurement - but only ON the actual pattern paper after it's unfolded.

Lynda McCann

6/26/2015 03:45:45 am

In the 1970's I worked for Sears, Roebuck as the assistant to the Fashion Coordinator for Girls' Clothing. At that time I learned that there had been no national agreed sizing since before WWII. Moreover, in working with the manufacturers' of the girls clothing, I learned that they each brought in 4-6 "fit" models to make their patterns. This is why there was such diversity from brand to brand. I'm sure this practice continues today. And add levels of complication to a good fit when fabric is different from style to style.

6/26/2015 05:31:28 am

Interesting, for my talk, I have measurement charts going back to 1905. It's wild to see how body proportions have changed.

BlackCat link

6/26/2015 04:37:31 am

Oh, Andrea. Can I call you Andrea? This is has been a huge problem for me for most of my adult life. I learned to sew specifically because my chest is so large that off the rack blouses no longer fit. Either it fits the chest, but the shoulders and waist are too big or it fits the shoulders and waist, but now chest doesn't fit.

Of course, after learning to sew, I find that patterns aren't made for me either. But, I'm not good enough at sewing to modify a pattern (and frankly, it scares me), so what I have done is buy those custom fit blouse patterns that come with different cup sizes. Oddly enough, the D cup fits me, even though I'm 36G. It's probably because no one knows how to correctly size bras, which is easily googlable, if you really want to know. (Pro tip: the band size never involves any math of any kind. It's a straight measurement.)

Whenever I choose patterns, I have to choose based on the finished measurements to ensure that my bust will fit. Of course, I have to actually sew those patterns, which I haven't, yet. I've only done the blouses, as I've said, and Simplicity 2172. That and sew tons of mock-ups because I never know how anything will fit anyway.

Sizing is horrible, none of it is standardized, and much of it seems to be vanity sizing. Don't even get me started on plus-sizing, which I will rant about because I am in-between misses and womens and nothing fits. Also, it's really mean that many costumes and some pretty clothes patterns don't come in plus sizes, either.

6/26/2015 05:38:17 am

You may call me Andrea. I'm glad you have found some patterns that fit. I would argue, through,the tpatterns ARE standardized, but most women aren't. So we either have to put up without ally fitting clothes or learn to fit and adjust patterns. You might want to fins a class or two to learn basic pattern adjusting. Try things out in muslin. I think you would enjoy having that skill.

Sarah

6/26/2015 04:59:02 am

I really hate sizing charts. I have found that my front-to-back 'features' matter a lot...I've got fairly narrow hips (mild inverted triangle) but you'd never know it from my basic measurements, since my 'junk in the trunk' throws several inches into the 'hip' number that aren't visible from a front view of me. Similarly, I've got a broad upper back that requires my sewing to slash and spread back bodices. It wasn't until I started measuring and sewing very carefully and seriously that I understood these were MY issues, and Ready-To-Wear or someone else's pattern just wasn't going to address them as a rule. What has helped most (while my fitting skills improve) is learning what kinds of clothing features are more forgiving - a v-neck can flex a little more for broad shoulders, and full-legged slacks with wonderful drape (I love these in an ITY) offer plenty of room at the rear hip without making me look huge.

6/26/2015 05:34:11 am

Sara, I think fitting issues brings many people to sewing. Good luck on your journey. You seemed to have figured a
It out already.

Jem

6/26/2015 08:03:42 am

Sizing for tops isn't too bad for me, but pants (especially jeans) are a nightmare. I can NOT find a size that fits correctly, or consistently across brands but no surprise there. Mostly because I have small waist and a rather large bottom. If I can get it over my bottom, it'll be enormous in the waist. And even then, when I sit down I find them extremely tight and uncomfortable in the crotch area! I have no idea how to alter that, so I've come to the point where I only wear dresses/skirts and leggings because pants just don't work for me at all.

I know you can do a full bust adjustment for shirts, which I have never needed to do, but do any pants patterns have a full bottom adjustment? Haha, is that a thing? If not, it really needs to be!

Siobhan

6/26/2015 09:37:38 am

Interesting topic. Sizing is honestly the bane of my sewing life. I find my size by adding two inches to my high bust measurement. Assuming my high bust is equivalent to a flat chest, and pattern companies draft for two inches difference between chest and bust (ie, B cup), that should get me the right size every time. Then I can do an FBA. Going by my high bust (or the other method above) will always be too small.

However, I still find that most commercial patterns don't fit my shoulder area at all. It's not that they are too wide or narrow, more that they are drafted for a flat, erect figure, and I am not. You could argue that most women are not either. I get a fine fit with RTW shirts and bodices - far better than with sewing patterns, with the exception of Burdastyle magazine patterns, which fit that area well. I've just decided to give up and solely use Burdastyle patterns or trace from RTW as it is the only way I can get a good fit.

Maureen

6/26/2015 12:04:54 pm

I haven't bought a woven top in years that actually fit me - they're all too small in the bust. My sewing skills, such as they are, do not include any knowledge of how to adjust a pattern to fit; guess I'll have to find a class. That diagram showing the different brands' waist and hip measurements for the "same" (hah!) size was quite an eye-opener! No wonder the things in my closet range from a size 6 to a 14 (and they all fit)!

I'd LOVE to know how the pattern companies decided what was "standard". Given how widely varied women's shapes are, did they just flip a coin?!?

6/26/2015 09:56:02 pm

I've tried using Simplicity's advice and choose Big Four patterns by my upper bust measurement, and that does work better than choosing the full bust. However, I only have a 2" difference between my upper and full bust measurements (38" and 40") due to my broad back and shoulders. My underbust is 33" - assuredly putting me in the DD+ cup range. So the theory is sound, if not the method of arriving at it.

I don't think there's any good SINGLE solution for commercial patterns. Measuring in the round (as many systems have noted) leads to problems because a raw circumference tells you nothing about the proportions inside it. I've achieved the best fit when I followed the Zapp method of dividing the body into front and back halves and cutting to those separate measurements - cutting a narrow flat back at size 10 but the prominent bust at 14, then fudging the connection points.

I wish pattern companies could develop pattern ranges by body type - one for square-shouldered apples, one for hourglasses, etc. Some indie pattern companies do specialize - I think a couple design explicitly for pear shapes. I don't know how realistic that is at a commercial scale. I'm hugely grateful for ranges of multi-cup size patterns in the meanwhile!

Sandra

6/27/2015 07:24:45 am

Muslins. Lots and lots of muslins.

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Sizing is NEVER clear ... grrrrr

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